Life Unscripted with Kevin Shook
Welcome to 'Life Unscripted with Kevin Shook', a heartening podcast where embracing vulnerability is the key to success. Join your host, Kevin, as he dives into the stories of remarkable individuals who have transformed their lives by opening up, facing challenges, and finding strength in their most vulnerable moments. Each episode features inspiring conversations with guests from various walks of life. Kevin's journey of embracing vulnerability has led him to meet amazing people, and now he brings their wisdom, laughter, and insights to you. Tune in and discover how embracing your vulnerabilities can lead to your greatest victories in life, both personally & professionally.
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Life Unscripted with Kevin Shook
Life Unscripted - Dr. Kostiuk from the Animal Care Alliance: Inspiring Tales & Pet Care Advice
Get ready to uncover the fascinating world of veterinary medicine with Dr. Kostiuk from the Animal Care Alliance! Driven by a passion for animals, Dr. Kostiuk shares her inspiring journey and the heartwarming, essential care she provides to pets and their owners, no matter their financial situation. You’ll gain insights into pressing pet health topics, from the grain-free diet debate to the vital importance of the AFCO label on pet foods. Dr. Kostiuk also offers her expert advice on managing prevalent conditions like diabetes in cats and dogs.
We tackle the critical challenges of managing overweight pets, spotlighting an incredible transformation story of a morbidly obese dachshund who embarked on a weight loss journey involving a rigorous feeding regimen and swimming exercises. Dr. Kostiuk explains the necessity of tough love when it comes to feeding pets and highlights the significant health risks obesity poses, especially for long-backed breeds. Plus, learn about the importance of dental care and get tips on the best products and techniques for keeping your pet’s teeth clean and healthy. For those with large, energetic dogs, the benefits of using a gentle leader harness are also covered.
Finally, join us for a heartwarming segment on the Community Cat Spay-Neuter Initiative, made possible by the Wayne County Foundation. Discover the impactful efforts to care for community cats, like Sylvia, and the importance of dedicated feeders in ensuring effective trapping and spaying/neutering. We also share essential tips on avoiding common toxins harmful to pets and upcoming events at the Animal Care Alliance. As a delightful end to the episode, enjoy a charming story about Monty, a dog with an amusing passion for empty toilet paper rolls, and some creative ideas for turning everyday items into entertaining toys for your furry friends. Monty just so happens to reside with Dr. Kostiuk. Tune in for an episode packed with valuable information and heartwarming stories!
Life Inscripted with Kevin Shook.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the show, Dr Kostik.
Speaker 3:Thank you, I'm glad to be here.
Speaker 2:I'm so excited to have met you and your dog that's going to be joining us pretty soon. This is exciting. He's just kind of walking looking out the window right now.
Speaker 3:He's a beast.
Speaker 2:So you're at the Animal Care Alliance, right, Correct? Yep. So what is your role at the Animal Care Alliance? Right, Correct, yep. So what is your role at the Animal Care Alliance?
Speaker 3:Well, mainly I am their kind of main veterinarian, so doing appointments, surgeries, helping take care of the cats that we have up for adoption or cats that come to us in need that don't really have a home, and just doing a little bit of everything. Well, animal Care Alliance is a very unique place. Our main mission is just to help animals and help people with those animals, and we believe that every pet and owner should have access to care, regardless of their financial status, and so we're working on getting better at that and trying to provide people with more options so that they can seek care for their pet.
Speaker 2:Very cool, so how long have you been doing this?
Speaker 3:In general.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Now I have to do basic math, so probably 15 years.
Speaker 2:What.
Speaker 3:I don't know. What is that 2009?
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 3:That's 15 years. Time goes by fast Time flies.
Speaker 2:So what inspires you to get into being a vet?
Speaker 3:You know it's a really cliche answer, but I just loved animals. I would rescue the baby birds that didn't really need rescuing, they were just trying to learn how to fly. We had horses, cats, dogs. I would go to the place that I would ride horses at and I would bring home a kitten, and my mom wouldn't be home from work yet, or my dad, and then when they'd get home I would say, mom, we found a kitten on the side of the road and she'd say Take it back to Andrea's. So she knew, but I kept trying to give us more cats.
Speaker 2:But yeah, then, going to college, I wanted to do research on birds and then finally, about my junior year of college, I realized Nope, nope, it's actually a veterinary medicine that I want to do very cool so, uh, being in veterinary care, what are some things you could share with our viewers about like maybe some um common misconceptions, um about like health problems you might have encountered? Um, are there some things that people should avoid? Like I know, when you pick out your dog food, cat food, people are like grain grain free, grain grain free. And then you know now you walk down the aisle and there's like all types of additives and stuff that you see at the grocery. So tell me about you know you could kind of start with that like some of the best things to look for.
Speaker 3:Sure, well, I mean dog foods. I feel like there's a new brand coming out daily, it feels like, and so I just try. I tell my clients that there's a governing body called AFCO and it's their job to make sure that the protein, carbohydrates, the minerals all meet a pet's needs. And there's two ways you can get an AFCO label on your pet food bag, and that is by plugging the ingredients into a computer and the computer says you have the right amounts of everything. Or you can do a feeding trial where they actually feed the food to dogs and cats and make sure that it is appropriate for them. The food to dogs and cats and make sure that it is appropriate for them. That costs a lot of money and a bit of time, so not a lot of companies are able to do that, but that's kind of the gold standard we go through.
Speaker 3:You know there's a whole controversy about grain-free. Is it causing heart disease, a certain type of heart disease in dogs that don't necessarily get that type of heart disease, and is food to blame for it? And we're still trying to figure that out, which is why I just kind of say stick with these main guys. They've been around forever. We know that your pets can do well on them, but sometimes it's just feed what you can and I'll have going on a little bit of a tangent but diabetes.
Speaker 3:So dogs can get mainly get type one diabetes. So it's not necessarily reversible, it's. It's your pancreas isn't able to produce the insulin and then you have type two, which is where you get the insulin resistance and we see cats get that a lot, kind of overweight, big, chonky boy, orange cats like to get type two diabetes and that can be reversed and so a low carb diet is important for them and honestly, like the fancy feast and the like friskies, canned food are really low in carbs. So while that's not like our gold standard food, I have a lot of people that I tell to just go out and buy that for their cats so we can get their pet in remission. Now we do have prescription food that can do that, but especially our clientele just don't have the means to spend that much on food.
Speaker 2:Right, you mentioned, like the grain-free, causing cardiovascular issues.
Speaker 3:I was told that about my cat, because I, because I have a sphinx okay and the stay away from the grain free, because it could cause cardiovascular issues yeah, cats are a little unique in that, um, they can't produce their own taurine, and so you need to have a diet that has taurine in it, and if you feed vegetarian you're not going to get proper amounts of it, so it's more of a vegetarian versus grain-free. And then some breeds are more predisposed to heart disease in cats and dogs.
Speaker 2:So you've been in this for roughly 15 years. How have you seen things evolve since then? Whether it's technology that aids, it's medicine, I imagine, uh, pharmaceuticals is kind of similar um to, and I know they use some, um, I think it was ketamine as a sedative and stuff. So so do we as humans, but um. So what are some things you've seen evolve throughout those 15 years?
Speaker 3:I mean a couple of things. One, just a shift to pets not being just a property or a farm animal, that they're really a part of your family, and so the care that they can get has evolved and specialized more. That they can get has evolved and specialized more. So we have dog dentists, ophthalmologists, orthopedic surgeons. I mean if there's a specialty in human medicine, most likely there's going to be a counterpart in veterinary medicine. We've also evolved a lot on our drugs. We used to see mange as a big, big issue and when I first started out we'd have to take like large animal ivermectin and I'd have to titrate it up so that they would get used to it and not get like neurologic side effects. And now we've got flea medication that as a monthly preventative you can give it and it'll treat the mites, and so it's been way easier to treat those and I rarely see them now.
Speaker 3:And then our drugs we're getting into, I think in the human medicine as well, a lot of those biologics where the monoclonal antibodies, all those fancy names where it's really targeted medication, and so a while back it would be here steroids if you have an itch or if you have something that's causing your immune system to go haywire. And now we have a lot more specialized medication that we can give that don't have the same side effects as something like steroids.
Speaker 2:So it's kind of like you know, in the human pharmacology is kind of like this targets the alpha one receptors, beta two receptors. So is that kind of now we're getting very honed in on um a solution for a specific problem, versus throw the kitchen sink at it.
Speaker 3:Exactly.
Speaker 2:Yep, that's very cool. So is there anything, um, I would say like signs and symptoms? I'm trying to think of something that would be very beneficial for pet owners, um, when they hear and watch this um signs and symptoms of any of um with animals cats that are unique, that most people would not know to look out for. That could maybe be early because, I know there's like a lot of mythological stuff like if, if your cat licks its paw every day, right?
Speaker 3:or the, the dry nose and all of that yeah, um, I mean, I guess being conscientious of, of their eating and drinking habits, um, a lot of diseases can start with them maybe drinking more and peeing a bit more, I would say. I mean, the one main thing is that just getting them in for yearly exams is going to be the best thing, because there are some things that you just don't check as a pet owner at home on a regular basis, that you know your vet's office will, I mean, heck my own dog. I'm not listening to him and looking down his ears all the time and so we don't pet in our house.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 3:But yeah, just getting them in for a yearly visit so they can get that nose to tail exam and then you know getting a proper weight on them. You may not like when I took my guy and normally he's 175 pounds and I finally weighed him and now he's 190 and you know me as a pet owner I'm like oops, didn't mean to do that.
Speaker 2:Right. But he'll be sad if you don't feed him, if you put him on a diet.
Speaker 3:No, he's managing quite well, is he? I mean he, he gets what he wants off the counter, so that's where he gets his extra calories.
Speaker 2:So okay, all right. So kind of shifting gears a little bit. Um, throughout your whole career. Um, is there like any one very memorable moment or memorable case that you've had? Um, I know you were sharing some pictures with me earlier of some animals that that might have been attacked and everything that you took care of that are healthy as all could get. Is there like one that really sticks out that still kind of hangs on the heartstrings a little bit?
Speaker 3:I mean I had there's a couple of them. I had a dachshund that he was morbidly obese and his owners loved him very much and he wouldn't eat people food and he had so many issues going on with him and he was kind of mean to the owners and they wouldn't let him medicate. But mainly we needed to get weight off him because dachshunds with their long backs can blow a disc and become paralyzed in the back end.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow.
Speaker 3:It's just kind of anything with those long back dogs they're just prone to getting those blown discs. So we needed to get his weight down and the owners couldn't do the tough love. And so he kind of came to our clinic and I enrolled him in what I called my fat camp and I offered him food for 30 minutes twice a day, no treats. He lasted eight days without eating dog food and then he finally started eating dog food. I took him home to my bathtub and I put a life vest on him and we made him swim for some exercise. We got him from, I think, about 38 pounds to, I think, 20 pounds. But you know, dogs are very smart, as are cats. But a lot of people will start oh, my dog didn't want to eat that, so I sprinkled some chicken on it. And then, oh, he stopped eating that, so now I sprinkled some steak. Well, they figured out that if they refuse something, mom and dad are going to add something better.
Speaker 3:So they're holding out to see what can they get from this. And so for dogs we can definitely do that tough love where we offer them food and then we pull it up. Cats you cannot do that. You can throw them into liver failure. So cats are a little different breed. If they go without food for too long, all their fat stores in their body they're starting to use them up and metabolize them and so it goes to their liver and it really overwhelms their liver and then they get really sick. So tough love for dogs, no, tough love for cats.
Speaker 2:I give my tough love all the time, like I, I can ball him up. I mean, he's not like a cat, yeah, he's just like a dog yeah um no, that's really cool. Um, so there's some things. Um, you're talking about some we're. We were talking earlier about some health tips when it comes to brushing teeth and I understand you brought somebody to help you demonstrate this.
Speaker 3:I did.
Speaker 2:So, without further ado, I think we should bring him in here. Okay. Life Inscripted with Kevin Shipp.
Speaker 3:Well, this is Monty. He is my three and a half year old Irish Wolfhound and he's going to help us demonstrate how to brush your dog's teeth. One of the most important things we can do is their dental health, and the more you can do at home, the less likely they'll need to go under anesthesia to have a dental cleaning and maybe get some teeth pulled.
Speaker 3:So, daily brushing is best. There are also. There's a website, the Veterinary Oral Health Council, and they have a list of products that have gone through kind of testing by veterinary dentists to be effective in removing mostly plaque. Plaque is that sticky stuff that forms on your teeth after like a few days of not brushing and then tartar is what mineralizes on the teeth and most few days of not brushing and then tartar is what mineralizes on the teeth and most of the products out there don't get the tartar off. That requires a dental cleaning. So the more you can do at home, the less likely you'll need to have a dental cleaning done. So we have they make special pet toothbrushes and toothpaste. You can't use people toothpaste because they can't continually swallow that fluoride. But this comes in various flavors.
Speaker 3:This might be chicken or mint poultry oh yeah, it's a man, so poultry slash mint, but they have beef liver and so what you do is I just kind of keep the mouth shut and I just spend like 20 seconds. Just do the outside of the teeth. You don't really need to worry about the insides.
Speaker 2:He likes mint poultry.
Speaker 3:And I don't know, if you can see, he's actually had dental work done, so he's missing a tooth here.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, the bottom canines are actually a little shorter than they should be, but he was born with his canines being too narrow and so when he closed his mouth they would try and like stab into his palate. Ah, so he actually went to a dentist, a veterinary dentist. He had a tooth pulled. He had one, he had a root canal done on it and then the two bottom teeth they had to kind of they're still alive, but they had to cut off the crown so that they didn't stab into his palate.
Speaker 3:So now he's got a nice, healthy mouth and he gets his teeth brushed every day. But, as you can see, it took me 15, 20 seconds and it wasn't a bother to him at all. If you can hear us talking over his panting.
Speaker 2:He's a very tolerant dog. Hello, how are you, buddy? Is that wild? Huh, what's that all about? What's that all about Oof? He's like yeah, no. He's also wearing.
Speaker 3:I like to recommend this kind of harness on big pulling dogs or even small pulling dogs. But this is called a gentle leader, so what it does is this goes around the mouth.
Speaker 3:It's not a muzzle or anything, it doesn't prevent his ability to open. And then it snaps behind the ears and then when he pulls, it pulls his nose down. And so in traditional harnesses, when you put it on, when they feel that pull like they just have an instinct, like they're going to just pull against, that kind of like a sled dog, and so when this pulls their head down, it's really hard for them to continue to pull forward with their head down. So it's, it's a good way to stop them pulling. And you know, every now and then he gets annoyed and he wants it off. But they tolerate it really well. But I can't have him pull me down the street.
Speaker 2:Let's see what would you say, you sit up and just kind of up and grab a leg good boy.
Speaker 3:And he's how tall? Well, at his shoulders he's about a little shy of 37 inches at the shoulders and when he stands up he's probably over 6 foot oh easily, yeah, easily. Yeah, I mean, the bad and good thing about being a vet is when you get like a purebred dog or even a cross like you kind of define them by the diseases they can get.
Speaker 1:Like oh, you want a golden. Oh, they all get this, this and this.
Speaker 3:Like oh, I want an Irish bullpup. Well, these are the diseases he's going to get. Life Inscripted with Kevin Shipp.
Speaker 2:So that was really cool, cool demonstration. It wore him out.
Speaker 3:Well, he gets worn out by simple things.
Speaker 2:I mean, if I was eight foot tall and huge, yeah, I'd be wore out too.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we'll go on a walk and he'll find a shady spot. He's like I'm just going to lay down. So how old did you say he is? He's three and a half.
Speaker 2:How old do they get? He's three and a half.
Speaker 3:How old do they get? Well, my last female she was about ten and a half when we had to put her down. So if we get to double digits with these giant breeds, I'm really happy With him being on the high end of the spectrum for height for wolfhounds. If I get him to eight, I'll'll be pretty happy, which is a little depressing, um you're like, I got attached to him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, it took me seven and a half years, but now we're attached and but you get those chihuahuas that you know live till. They're like 18 um no, I have the. I have the hairless cat.
Speaker 3:I've had pit bulls and they were amazing, and um french bulldogs, smallest I've ever had yeah but no ankle biters yeah, I mean, you know, do they tend to be the ones that want to go after me, maybe, but um, since it says you know, usually if I have an owner holding a chihuahua, I need them to like back it into me and I grab it like this so that they're not trying to bite me. But they're spicy. We appreciate that.
Speaker 2:It's all right. So veterinarians play a huge role in promoting the health for the pets. How do you do that locally through the Animal Care Alliance? What are some programs that they might offer? What's some things you could share with us.
Speaker 3:Sure, well, we do monthly vaccination clinics just because you know kind of a herd health mentality. If we get the majority of the population vaccinated then we'll less likely have parvo outbreaks or distemper. And especially for those where finances are concerned, that's where you can go in, pay for the vaccines and leave with them updated. Now, those don't have the nose to tail exam, nose to tail exam. So we still recommend that if they have any concerns, um, they should get a full exam, and ideally just a full exam, even if they don't have any obvious concerns. But from a health standpoint, um, especially for the community, at least getting them vaccinated is doing something. Um, we also do a lot of spay neuter, affordable spayay-neuter.
Speaker 3:We are doing kind of those community cats that maybe don't have one particular owner. Maybe you know someone like, let's see, recently we have a little kitty in our care named Sylvia, and she came to us by a very nice woman. Her grandmother kind of has a colony of cats. Through no fault of her own, some were dropped off and then, you know, one, two, become eight, ten, and so this kitty had a problem with its eyeball and they brought it in and they wanted to do what was best for it, but putting it back in that environment wasn't going to be what is best for it. So we don't normally like to take on just healthy cats, but since this one was more of a medical kitty, we had her sign them over to us. We had to take out her eye. We spayed her, we got her nice and healthy and then the following few weeks we trapped all of the cats at our grandma's place and then we spayed and neutered them so that population wouldn't continue to grow.
Speaker 3:And so we were awarded a generous grant by Wayne County Foundation to provide those spay-neuter services of those community or outdoor kitties at no cost to those people that are feeding them or finding an area.
Speaker 3:So what we ask for is that there is a dedicated person feeding them so that we can get them on a schedule, because our spay-neuter attempts don't really do much unless we can get 75% of that population. So we want to try and trap them all at once and bring them in for spay-neuter. That way, if you're only trapping a few, they start getting a little wary of those traps and then they become more difficult to trap and get them in. But we have them, feed them on a schedule so that when we pull the food, we can put food in the traps and they'll. They'll go in the traps and then we fix them, we vaccinate them. If there's any obvious medical things that we need to treat, we'll treat them, keep them for a little while but then release them to back where they came from and again at no cost to the to the pet owners due to our our grant from wayne county foundation that's pretty cool, because that's I mean, that's a hard thing to get ahead of and I don't know if we'll ever get ahead of that.
Speaker 3:It's going to take a lot of work.
Speaker 2:Stray cats? And right, I have. I mean, I have one that comes across my house. Well, we have like three that walks across my house in town.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:Um, one will just stop and hang out with me if I'm outside yeah, like you're kind of cool, but don't know where it goes, don't know where it belongs, where it eats. It's huge.
Speaker 3:I mean, if it's huge, it's eaten somewhere it's, it's, it's well taken care of somewhere yeah, and I mean cats are smart, so you may think you're the one feeding it, but it goes three doors down and that person thinks they're the one feeding it, and a block down that person thinks they're the one feeding it.
Speaker 3:So, um, I know it's a hard concept to to get behind sometimes, but some of these outdoor kitties, if they look healthy, um, we spay, neuter them and they get to remain outside, um, and then eventually that population will stabilize and we shouldn't have as many kind of outdoor kitties as we do now. Now, if they are ill, look sick, unkempt, or if they're like little kittens, then those are categories where we want to take them in and potentially find them a good home and fix them up. So you know, by no means are we saying we're going to leave all cats outside and it's their problem. Good luck. If they're healthy, they're getting fed, they get to stay out. But If they're healthy, they're getting fed, they get to stay out. But if they're unhealthy or they're young, then we'll do something more dramatic with them.
Speaker 2:That's really cool, kind of wrapping up. So are there any events scheduled events coming up? Are there any spray neuter clinics coming up Certain days times?
Speaker 3:locations, Certain days, times, locations Right now. I think our next vaccine clinic is going to be, if this is a Saturday, Saturday, August 17th, whatever Saturday falls around that area I think it's the 17th and that's from 8 to noon, and so you just come in, you pay, get, get vaccines and and head out the door, Um, you can pick up some flea product. Um, you know, if it's a prescription item, then we'll need to do a full exam and that'll have to be another day. But over the counter, items you can pick up and head on out. And then we are working on some, some spay neuter days, um, to be determined.
Speaker 2:So is this um vaccination clinic? Is it at Animal Care Alliance?
Speaker 3:Yep over at Animal Care Alliance.
Speaker 2:And the address is 1353 Abington. Pike. We asked Dr Matt that one day she guessed it right.
Speaker 3:I will say I probably didn't know that until maybe the last eight or nine months, the first year I worked there.
Speaker 2:It's hard to remember numbers sometimes.
Speaker 3:It is.
Speaker 2:You've got so many other things going on. You know you can only fit so much up here. Well, is there anything else you would like to share with everyone before we wrap this up?
Speaker 3:I guess a few things would be maybe some common toxins or things that pets can get into, or to be aware of Um cats really the main one is lilies Um, they can't even really lick the pollen off a lily. Um, it can cause kidney failure. So if you have cats especially around Easter and spring holidays someone brings you flowers make sure there are no lilies in that. Tylenol, like over-the-counter pain medication, is tricky because you want to help your pet if you see that they're in pain, and so a lot of places will sell over-the-counter aspirin, doggy aspirin, to give to their pets. But if you come into the vet office and you've given aspirin previously or within you know days of coming to the office, we have to hold off and wait on prescribing stronger pain meds, stronger anti-inflammatories. So if you can get into the vet, I would hold off on doing over-the-counter pain medications because that can sometimes inhibit what we can prescribe.
Speaker 3:But other common toxins with dogs are going to be chocolate onions, garlic, macadamia nuts. Xylitol is becoming a big one and that's kind of a hidden danger because some products like sugar-free gum will have xylitol in it and that can cause their blood sugar to drop dangerously low and if they get through that, then it can cause liver failure. So it's it's not a fun one. Antifreeze we oftentimes get a lot of antifreeze cases in the winter, unfortunately. Antifreeze, I think, has like a sweet taste to it and sometimes draws dogs to it.
Speaker 3:I thought they were supposed to quit manufacturing it with all of the bad stuff I hope so it was a while back, like it's not fun to treat right, and I might be thinking, uh, the 50, the already diluted stuff, but it was supposed to be manufactured and without all that stuff um, and then rat bait and we get a lot of rat poison cases, um, and I think they're phasing out the ones where it just stops the blood ability to clot, um, and those were a little bit easier to treat. And now we get ones that are more the neurotoxins, so they come in with seizures and other mental issues that are more tricky to to treat um, are there any toys, dog toys, because you could, there's, you go to any pet store.
Speaker 2:There's miles of dog toys and some people are like, well, that might be kind of bad for them, or, um, or they're. You know, I like the, I love. When I had my pit I was always a kong, big kong.
Speaker 3:Yeah, peanut butter kongs are great right um, I do like, like for the big chewers. Um, the problem with, like, some of those hard bones and everything the dentists you know I would always say if you hit your knee with the toy and it hurts you, then it has the potential to break a tooth. So if you do any of those hard toys, you're gonna run the risk of fracturing a tooth, which then would need to be extracted. Or if you wanted to save the tooth doing a root canal, um, so I think kongs are really good toys and you can even I'll put like dog food and then seal the caps up with some peanut butter. You can throw it in the freezer. Um, you can do the same with toilet paper rolls. So, fun fact for Monty, his favorite treat is a toilet paper roll.
Speaker 2:With nothing in it. With nothing in it, it's cardboard.
Speaker 3:No, he was busting into our bathrooms. I'm like I thought it was my children making a mess and no, it was him stealing the toilet paper roll.
Speaker 2:That's great, because that's kind of like how much money have you probably spent in dog toys and all you needed was a toilet roll?
Speaker 3:well, I mean it's very short-lived because he just eats it. Yeah, I mean he held one in his mouth like a big cigar and he was just drooling out of it because he was so happy so, but you can use those to again put dog food and and uh treats and and peanut butter and throw them in the freezer and then those can be like little busy toys for them.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. Is he asleep?
Speaker 3:He's resting. That's awesome.
Speaker 2:Well, I appreciate you guys coming up here.
Speaker 3:Yeah, thanks for having us.
Speaker 2:It was a treat having him up here and the demonstration, although, like what did you say, this was poultry mint yeah, it's uh like verbex cet poultry flavored yeah, but yeah, you know if I'm not.
Speaker 3:Liver is more of your thing, go for it.
Speaker 2:I'm not switching my toothpaste anytime soon to poultry you get no fluoride protection here, though, so maybe you want something different. All right, we will wrap this up. And again, Animal Care Alliance. Dr Kostick, it was a pleasure. Life Inscripted with Kevin Shipp.
