Life Unscripted with Kevin Shook
Welcome to 'Life Unscripted with Kevin Shook', a heartening podcast where embracing vulnerability is the key to success. Join your host, Kevin, as he dives into the stories of remarkable individuals who have transformed their lives by opening up, facing challenges, and finding strength in their most vulnerable moments. Each episode features inspiring conversations with guests from various walks of life. Kevin's journey of embracing vulnerability has led him to meet amazing people, and now he brings their wisdom, laughter, and insights to you. Tune in and discover how embracing your vulnerabilities can lead to your greatest victories in life, both personally & professionally.
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Life Unscripted with Kevin Shook
The Compassionate World of Exotic Animal Rehabilitation | Dr. Matt from the Animal Care Alliance
When Dr. Matt from the Animal Care Alliance (ACA) stepped into our studio, the passion for her life's work was almost tangible. Our conversation unveiled a tapestry of childhood admiration for nature, a rigorous journey to veterinary specialism, and heartfelt stories of wildlife rehabilitation. As she spoke, it became clear that ACA isn't just a clinic; it's a lifeline for underserved communities and a sanctuary for injured wildlife, where every creature, from the humblest sparrow to the most exotic binturong, receives care rooted in deep compassion.
The world of exotic animal care, often shrouded in mystery, unfolded through Dr. Matt's vivid recounting of encounters with animals as varied as tigers and tarantulas. Imagine diagnosing a bear or sharing a moment with a chimpanzee – this is Dr. Matt's reality. Her anecdotes not only enthralled us but also opened a dialogue on the complexities of exotic pet ownership and its implications within Indiana's surprising wildlife tapestry. These narratives serve as a stark reminder of the specialized care these unique animals require and the profound responsibilities that come with welcoming them into our homes.
Finally, our discussion soared with tales of majestic birds of prey, the art of falconry in conservation, and the undeniable impact of human activity on these creatures' lives. The story of Ozzy, the red-tailed hawk, was a poignant example of the consequences of our carelessness and a testament to the dedication of wildlife rehabilitators. As we wrapped up, the invitation to witness Ozzy, the hawk, captivate our audience in a future session, left us with a sense of hope and a reminder of the essential role each of us plays in supporting organizations like the ACA and the wildlife they champion.
Life Unscripted with Kevin Shook.
Speaker 2:Dr Matt.
Speaker 1:Hello, here we are, yes, Welcome to Life Unscripted.
Speaker 2:Thank you, ACA style right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're really excited to be here today this is great.
Speaker 2:So tell everyone what ACA stands for.
Speaker 1:ACA stands for Animal Care Alliance. We are a nonprofit, low-cost veterinary clinic here in Richmond and the main goal of the clinic is to be able to offer veterinary services to underserved or underprivileged communities, especially low income families, so that they still can have that benefit of the human animal bond and the relationship with their pet, while being able to provide necessary medical care for these animals provide necessary medical care for these animals. We also do wildlife rehabilitation, which is one of my main focuses, where if an animal is injured or orphaned, so hit by a car, or the tree gets cut down and the babies don't have a nest anymore, things like that, we are many of us at the clinic and we have a network community around us of licensed rehabbers so we can take those animals in. My focus is the medical care, so if it's a broken wing I can pin it back together, or you know a wound or something, and babies and such we can distribute out to help raise them so that they can be released back into the wild.
Speaker 2:Wow, that's fascinating. So what got you into all of this? Like there has to be a story, as you were a kid or something growing up.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So as a kid I was always, you know, the tomboy out catching frogs and salamanders, and whatever I could get my hands on I'm usually bringing them home, whether or not my parents were thrilled with that. Especially my mom wasn't always big on all the creepy crawlies. But as that developed, I've always been really interested in biodiversity and wildlife conservation and just the genetic or the evolutionary traits that these animals develop to be able to thrive in their set environment. And when I got into undergrad at IU, go Hoosiers. There is a clinic out there called Wild Care Inc. It's a wildlife rehabilitation center and I started volunteering there my freshman year and that just really kind of set the whole course of my future actions. I fell in love with it immediately.
Speaker 1:I love getting to work with these animals that at best you see afar, if ever in your life um and then from there went to vet school at oklahoma state um oklahoma state university, which is osu, which has a big rivalry with Oklahoma university which is OU.
Speaker 1:We are the Cowboys at OSU. Okay and um, I did a lot with exotics there. Um, obviously we all receive the same basic training and then you can kind of branch out within vet med of what your passions are. Um, so I did some wildlife rehab there through the school. We did some through the exotics program at that school and then I did externships in exotics as well. So I worked in wildlife rehab out in California on things like sea lions and elephant seals, even in zoos and exotic companion practice as well. Bounced around a bit zoos and exotic companion practice as well. Bounced around a bit, decided I really wanted to pursue exotic medicine, which is as a veterinarian. Once you graduate, legally you can work on any species. However, most people aren't trained on what to do with a special bird or a special guest.
Speaker 1:But yeah, legally you can go work on a horse or a cow or a tiger. What we're tested on are the main domestics, and then they add things like chickens and such on the big national exam.
Speaker 1:But to do something like exotics there's a lot more hurdles to pass, especially if you want to be board certified or become a specialist, which was my goal to pass, especially if you want to be board certified or become a specialist, which was my goal. So after vet school I had to do a small animal rotating internship so a year long program they did at the University of Wisconsin in Madison. Then I did a year long specialty internship working just with exotics at Tufts in Massachusetts and then I did a two year residency program here in Indianapolis at the avian exotic animal clinic of Indianapolis in Indy. Um, then I had to submit a bunch of stuff and now, if all goes according to plan, in October there's a big exam I get to take before I can call myself truly a specialist, Cause it's actually a trademark term.
Speaker 2:Wow, that's impressive so yeah, a lot of a to jump.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, it's got like a 20 something percent pass rate. You usually fail it the first time.
Speaker 2:I don't know. You seem pretty sharp. I got faith in you, that'll be exciting.
Speaker 1:I'm going to try.
Speaker 2:So how did you land up, end up here at the ACA in Richmond?
Speaker 1:Well, it's kind of a funny story. Actually, I was working in Indy and I still work there once a week, but I love wildlife and we do wildlife rehab there as well, and I just wanted to get more information. I'm always a sponge for learning new things, so I took a course online through the NWRA, which is the National Wildlife Rehabilitators Association, just to learn more, get more certification, and they had to do a group project where they just paired you up with someone else in the class that was going through it, and I happened to get paired up with Dr Kostik, who is another veterinarian here at ACA. I had never heard of ACA, I knew nothing about it there, but she just happened to mention oh yeah, I'm in Indiana too, because it was people all over the country and mentioned the clinic and I was like, oh, they do wildlife and they're in Indiana. I should look more into this. Someone upon it that way. Um and it. It sounded great.
Speaker 2:It sounded like a really great um place to match my goals which were being able to serve the community and do wildlife and see exotic pets and ended up here from there. Well, I know I met Joyce three or four months ago. Everybody if you're watching, she's behind the cameras. We tried to pull her in here. So I met her and I knew she was really excited about you coming here. So that's great. You, you know you really wanted here. Um, I think our mission and I want to have you on um, you know quite often, because, for one, I really love animals. I think you even knew that I have a chimpanzee friend, but you might not like it, but uh, it's just. You know I connect with animals more than humans. I mean, you can probably relate sometimes like yeah, absolutely so um, I want you up here a lot.
Speaker 2:I want the community to know that you're able to take care of exotics here, because that was the big thing and a lot of my friends locally have snakes bearded dragons. I forget the name of the bigger lizard.
Speaker 1:Monster lizards or tegus.
Speaker 2:Tegu. You know what I was about to say, Timu.
Speaker 1:Not quite.
Speaker 2:I know right, but yeah, so I want them to know that you're here and how many days a week, what days.
Speaker 1:It's Tuesday, wednesday, thursday. I'm usually there from eight to six and we are seeing appointments either in the morning or in the afternoon. Right now we have a lot of openings because we're still trying to get the exotics clientele rolling, because it is new. A lot of people, you know I've been there for a couple months now and people are still saying I didn't even know this was in Richmond. I only found you because my ferret or whatever was sick. So from that we've been able to get people to come in, even just for the routine wellness exams that we really recommend, and we're just trying to spread it from there. So it's every week so far and I'm happy to see whatever. The only limitations would be um, size and space. So we don't really have the facility for like a tiger or a chimpanzee, um, but you know I'm arachnids. Give me pause. Sometimes I'm going to be honest.
Speaker 1:Um spiders spiders definitely give me pause, um, but beyond that I can't think of any exotic pet that I'm afraid of Like. I love them all. I love the giant snakes.
Speaker 2:Now, what's the craziest thing that you've taken care of? I mean, I want to hear some Tiger King stuff here. Oh yeah, there's a tiger that we see every year for our annual exams. Where.
Speaker 1:Well, it comes to the clinic in Indianapolis. Oh okay, but as far as people's pets, oh man, you'd be amazed at how many people in Indiana have monkeys. Oh, yeah, like little marmosets to bigger, scarier things like chimps. We see big cats. We'll see falconry birds, which is a passion of mine. They're wild raptors that are trained to work with a falconer. I think even more than the species, because they get pretty similar to me. I guess my favorite one was a binturong, which is also called a bearcat.
Speaker 2:For anyone listening.
Speaker 1:You should Google what a binturong or a bearcat looks like. How do a baby?
Speaker 2:uh b-i-n-t-u-r-o-n-g.
Speaker 1:Okay, it's kind of like a did akumbo make note of that? Yeah, um, but we had a baby one and it was cute as can be. Um, that was probably my favorite because I have never worked with one, since they are in zoos but I didn't even know. People had them as a pet and they're most well-known because their feet smell like popcorn. What so we all had to pass it around to sniff its feet?
Speaker 2:Wow. Because you know that's bad Like you can't believe it if you don't.
Speaker 1:Exactly, you can't not smell its feet.
Speaker 2:That's wild. So, like I told you, I paramedic over in Putnam County, which is a large county, but what I've learned so obviously Toby's over there, the chimpanzee. And you're like that's a bad idea.
Speaker 2:He's privately owned and everything else. It's probably a horrible idea. So his owner is an old farmer and he raised him since he was a little baby or whatever. So I go play with him when I'm paramedic and stuff and he does his little bing, bing, bing, bing, bing and you know could obviously drop me right then and there just wanting to give me a hug. But he's in a cage and everything else that he he's got out of. Once I told you that story, but what I've learned is someone in Putnam County has two bears as pets. Really yes, because one of our other shifts went on a bear attack.
Speaker 1:Wow, yeah, that sounds like a really cool meta call.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and in Putnam County. And at the time I was in Tennessee looking for bears because I was doing some marketing stuff at Hidden Mountain Resort and I get a thing saying that there's a bear attack in Putnam County. I'm like how?
Speaker 1:the hell that's Indiana Right? I don't think we have. I mean maybe out in the woods, but you know it would be hard to be.
Speaker 2:Well, and I blame social media, because people see this bear at somebody's door, so they're like every bear, will you know?
Speaker 1:Let's see this bear at somebody's door. So they're like every bear will you know, let's go hug it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and the monkeys. That's all I get on my phone now, just because diapers, yeah, yeah, Just because Toby's on my, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So, um no, that's really cool experience, and uh.
Speaker 1:so I want you to scold me a little bit about this chimpanzee I hang out with, like okay, um, I don't know the owner of a chimpanzee, so I don't know how he would feel about the scolding well, uh, he won't see it he won't see this, I'm not gonna share it with him.
Speaker 2:Um, so the owner is an old man and he's had toby since he was born. He grew up in the house until he was six in inside the house with him and then he moved on to his tiny home outside with the big cages and stuff. Okay, um, he had the permit and I think he still has the permits, but the state that's great yeah, the state like calls him whenever there's another case and for his expertise okay stuff. So he's really good with him and stuff, but he doesn't let people inside Good Except for.
Speaker 2:Well inside. So it's like a big tiny home deal and then it's a big cage inside.
Speaker 1:So there's a double wall.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah, that's really good, that's important, but I get in between there.
Speaker 1:But not in the cage. I don't get inside with Chimp, that's fine If he's had this chimp, since he was a tiny baby you said he was what? 30-something now.
Speaker 2:He's 29 years old.
Speaker 1:Laws were a lot different 30 years ago about what you could and couldn't get, and for better or worse, you could get pretty much whatever you wanted. So if it's in what we call in the zoo world, protected contact, which means you aren't just sitting right next to a fully grown adult male champ. We would still definitely not recommend them as pets. They are still extremely dangerous. There was a story that went around of the one that quite literally ripped a woman's face off.
Speaker 1:They are extremely intelligent creatures and they are fascinating to study and they have such complex social dynamics. But, being so intelligent, people try to equate them as like a human child for all the good parts, but what they don't equate is the human child when it comes to temper tantrums and ingenuity. They are most well known in the zoo world for being able to make a weapon out of pretty much anything.
Speaker 2:Doesn't matter what they find able to make a weapon out of pretty much anything, doesn't matter what what they find.
Speaker 1:He throws tomatoes at me sometimes tomatoes is honestly the best thing he can throw at you I know.
Speaker 2:So yeah, tomatoes, he'll throw at me through the cage yeah, like that, but he'll. He gets real excited when he hears my voice before I even go inside. And then, um, I go inside and stand back and he shows off for a while. Yeah, and I give him a little bit and then I just yell at him, I'm like sit down, and then he just stops and he'll put his back against the cage and want me to scratch it. He'll stick his tongue out and I'll pull on his tongue and flip his lips.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And then he'll start to get. I can tell when he starts to like he's about to get hyper again, so I back up and let him ding, ding, ding, ding. But he'll play a water bottle game with me.
Speaker 1:Like a tug of war.
Speaker 2:He wants me to. He'll go through all the holes in his cage and want me to grab the water bottle.
Speaker 1:Oh, like a whack-a-mole. Yeah, and he'll make me run back and forth, yeah.
Speaker 2:Then he's laughing at me, I but no, so yeah, it's pretty cool. And then it like resets the whole day hanging out. I tell everybody it's my therapy chimp. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And people can form really close bonds and they can form really close bonds with the people they work with. The big concern is safety and the animal's mental health.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah. Well, yeah, If it's having a bad day, if it might have an infection and it might something else, it might be really irritable.
Speaker 1:But even from a standpoint of enrichment.
Speaker 1:So one of the big troubles, especially back in the day the laws are a lot more lax and even now the USDA has changed their laws based on captive birds or changed their interpretation of the law to where now the USDA is in charge of captive birds as well.
Speaker 1:It used to like feds and DNR would like the US government being the feds and Indiana DNR kind of split up.
Speaker 1:If you have a captive wild animal, who's in charge? But I digress. The USDA, now being in charge of birds, has implemented a new program for anyone that has a captive bird like a captive wild bird we're not talking about parrots here that they must have an enrichment program written out, meaning that it is federal law if you're going to have one of these animals that you have to write out and sit with a veterinarian to plan out a method to make that animal's life more enriched, to mentally stimulate them. Let them engage in natural behaviors like bathing or dust bathing or playing with toys and tearing apart whole prey items. And it's really only in the last few decades that people have started to recognize and understand the importance of enrichment with animals and the biggest problem back in the day. And the reason you know all the research centers got so much push against having primates is the lack of enrichment that these animals were as intelligent as a human child.
Speaker 2:But not given stuff to do, but given nothing exactly.
Speaker 1:You can't take a little toddler and put them in a room with nothing to do all day. They truly suffer physically as well as mentally. So it sounds like this chimp does get some really good enrichment. He has a big outdoor enclosure. He has protected contact. These are all good things in the positive column. I'm going to be honest Anytime I hear privately owned chimp, it's immediately in the negative column.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely, a thousand percent. It's just one of those, like you, have to know the whole situation before you can even pull it halfway positive. Right, right, exactly.
Speaker 1:And the fact that he's got him 30 years ago also influences that. You know he's not going to decide oh, 10 years in. Actually this was a terrible idea. Now I'm just going to dump him on the street somewhere, like that's also not good. So if, if you know he's willing to do this research and make sure he keeps up to date with the permits and does all of this enrichment, I'm never going to approve, but that's kind of the best way to do it if you're going to do it.
Speaker 2:So, okay. So Toby's going to outlive him, okay, mm-hmm. So I'm afraid Toby's going to end up in a zoo. He's going to be like what the fuck? Because he's not going to have his TV that he watches, he's not going to be able to pick blue Mountain Dew over green Mountain Dew, he's not going to see me all the time. Where do I begin an education If just to be able? I know they're not going to let me come in the enclosure and everything else, but how can I be involved beyond just a normal zoo patron?
Speaker 1:So if you were to go to a different facility?
Speaker 2:Is there like an educational certificate I could work towards?
Speaker 1:I would probably direct you towards training programs. So like you can become certified as an animal trainer.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Zookeepers also obviously get direct contact. Well, you know, you know protected. But like daily contact with these animals. Um, but that is a hard field to get into a lot of people don't realize. Most of them require at least a bachelor's degree. Many years of you know the intern right, unpaid work.
Speaker 2:I figured there'd be like a lot I just wanted to be able to like as I'm coming home. Stop by the zoo and make sure, like he knows um, yeah, yeah, but um, that it would depend on the individual facility.
Speaker 1:Okay, so a lot of facilities will do um, like special experiences, they call it, where you usually have to pay extra, and maybe you could arrange something with that program if you've known him on a personal level before he were to enter a facility, um, but where you could go in the back and it's always protected contact, often with a barrier, so you can't even like get right up against the fence, um but to be able to see him and talk to him and engage with him.
Speaker 1:Um, I will say again, with the push towards mental health and enrichment, um, there is a lot of negative stigma around zoos that I think is very undeserved. There are definitely bad zoos. There are definitely places that make you cringe and cry yourself to sleep when you see what happens there.
Speaker 1:But the vast majority of them especially if they're accredited and the big name ones that you're going to be familiar with, not like the person who just happens to have some stuff while you're driving down a highway in the middle of nowhere All of those have those same laws To be certified, to be accredited by the AZA or the Association of Zoos and Aquariums. They have to do things like prove that they're doing enrichment, different things every single day. They do actually get TV access sometimes they do. They get puzzle toys that have to be varying every day so they can get change every day in their environment and he may decide that he makes other chimp friends there and get social interaction that way, even if he doesn't have this owner that he's known for so long.
Speaker 2:Right now he has dog friends and he has goat friends, miniature cow friends, Because I mean he knows how to make the goat sounds and everything, and then he'll throw water bottles at them. It's hilarious. But enough about Toby.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:I don't want to leave our friend in here hungry and everything else Very excited. So tell everybody who she is, and then let's get her out, Alright.
Speaker 1:Well, this is Ozzy Osbert she. I will show you what she looks like Adad Akumbo.
Speaker 2:Your cover is still on there On your camera. Your cover is still on there On your camera. Your cover is still on there, buddy. Oh, that's just a little accent camera, that's just extra, that's just extra. So this is Ozzie.
Speaker 1:Ozzie Osborne. She, as you can hopefully tell from here, is a red-tailed hawk. They are a native Indiana wildlife species. I'm going to let her just chill for a minute, yeah.
Speaker 2:She's never been here before. Let her get her anxiety down.
Speaker 1:And she should settle, get her wings closed. But yes, this is a native species. They're very, very commonly seen here in Indiana, most of the time when you're driving out on the highway. Good for you.
Speaker 1:When you're driving out on the highway and you see a big bird sitting on a power line or telephone pole, a big tree branch. It's usually one of these guys. They prefer hunting in environments, um, where there's like a, a woods that changes to flat land. Yeah, so, for example, on the edge of a farm or, more commonly, woods alongside a highway. Um, the other thing that they love about highways is actually a problem for them.
Speaker 1:And one of the reasons we see a lot of them come in through wildlife rehab, which for them and one of the reasons we see a lot of them come in through wildlife rehab, which is, um, one of their main jobs in this world is to eat mice. They love mice, it's their favorite thing ever. And if you think of on those big highways, especially the major ones, with a lot of fast food joints around, people unfortunately love to eat their fast food and just toss either the wrappers or, you know, it's an apple core, it's natural, I'm just going to toss it out the window. Extra fries I'm not going to eat, just toss it out the window. And the mice and rats and all of those natural scavengers love it. And these guys love the mice and rats, so it draws them to the highways Exactly.
Speaker 1:And they have incredible vision. They have a higher flicker fusion frequency which means they can literally see faster than us. They can receive images and interpret them faster because as they're flying, everything is coming very quickly at them and they have to be able to make minute changes in their flight pattern to get that prey. But when they're focusing on something, that is all they see. They don't see the semi truck coming at 80 miles an hour down the highway flight pattern to get that prey.
Speaker 1:But when they're focusing on something, that is all they see. They don't see the semi truck coming at 80 miles an hour down the highway, and that's where we see a lot of injuries there. So typically, the message that we love to focus on with things like red-tailed hawks that you're going to see around everywhere is just clean up after yourselves, even if it is something like an apple core or something natural, take it home, throw it away, throw it in your compost, because you don't want to track it Exactly.
Speaker 1:And these aren't the only predators that will come seeking the mice and such All the coyotes that you see on the side of the road. Usually the same situation.
Speaker 2:So how did Ozzie end up at the ACA?
Speaker 1:Ozzie has a silly story. She actually was found, I believe, on somebody's porch and just kind of hanging out around there and they were like that's weird, not normal behavior for a red-tailed hawk.
Speaker 1:So she was picked up and brought to ACA, evaluated and found not to have any injuries. But she was a first-year bird. So we can tell that with red-tails because, as you see, she has a beautiful red tail. They don't actually get that until their second year of life. So when she came in, her tail was banded, which tells us that she's a baby or a first year. You know, she still was the full size, she had all of the full feathers but hadn't reached sexual maturity yet. And while in the course of ACA she was found to have no injuries. Just, you know, happy, healthy, red tail talk. Okay, great Tried to release her and she wouldn't leave. She just hung out around the clinic, um, and around the area that she was.
Speaker 2:you know she was kept outside in flight cages to try and get the one that I met the other day when I visited.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was screaming up a storm.
Speaker 2:He told me, their sound is actually.
Speaker 1:Yes, I was wondering if she might do it for us. She might start to do it once.
Speaker 2:I get the food out. Can I feed her? Will she let me feed her?
Speaker 1:Probably not, I'm not sure if she'll take it from me either, because she's pretty worked up right now.
Speaker 2:Does she know we're talking about her?
Speaker 1:Probably not, she probably just knows this is weird.
Speaker 2:Right, like this is awkward. Yeah, that's all right.
Speaker 1:But she's displaying a lot of signs of comfort. Is she, yeah. So right now, it takes training to be able to interpret bird behavior and oftentimes, honestly, many of my parrot owners do not fully understand the bird behavior. But, focusing on what she's doing right now, so she's looking around, which is a good thing we want her to explore her environment. Right now. She's just mad that I have this just shorter than that one.
Speaker 2:She wants to turn around.
Speaker 1:Now she wants to spin around. She just basically wants me to give her her feet back. But, looking around to explore the environment, her feathers are relaxed, kind of open, not slicked tight to her body. Um, she's kind of wrestling her wings a little bit. All of that is just her settling in. A fearful bird can display several different traits, um, but most of the time they're going to be fixated on something, something they perceive as a threat or someplace they see as an escape, and they're going to do everything they can to try and get there. She's inquiring at my glove, which is a different one from what she's used to, so she keeps looking at her feet in my hand.
Speaker 2:She's checking out all the camera systems. She's never seen anything like that. She's just looking around.
Speaker 1:And that's, that's perfectly normal, that's perfectly what we would expect. She says oh, this is new. How old is she Got to double check?
Speaker 2:About five we think. Yeah, and what's the lifespan on?
Speaker 1:her In captivity. So it can vary. Again, most of the time we're going to see them hit by car or lead poisoning or take your pick. They oftentimes come in shot, which, by the way, is federally illegal Um and you can face big fines and even jail time.
Speaker 2:Really there she is.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You want to talk?
Speaker 1:Or do you want the food?
Speaker 2:Are you hungry?
Speaker 1:Um, so we do often see them shot a lot in captivity. They can live a lot longer than that. Um, typically we're going to see at least 15 to 20. If we start to push 30, that's very geriatric. But in the wild, again, they don't have any natural predators, but humans, unfortunately contribute to their demise very frequently.
Speaker 2:So you've worked with her a lot. I actually haven't, you haven't, I haven't worked with her a ton.
Speaker 1:Joyce has worked with her a lot. I actually haven't, you haven't, I haven't worked with her a ton. Joyce has worked with her a lot. And that behavior is called baiting B-A-T-E, and that means I wonder if I can fly over there. But I have to remember that I can't.
Speaker 2:Poor girl.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know, but you have to stay here. Gives you an idea of her wingspan.
Speaker 2:You put some wings off.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and she says now I'm hot.
Speaker 2:Is she mad?
Speaker 1:No, she's just hot.
Speaker 2:Oh.
Speaker 1:There's a like a spring.
Speaker 2:So that's kind of like a bearded dragon or whatever. They'll open their mouth. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:They can't sweat. They'll open up their feathers and sometimes they'll hold their wings partly out if they're really trying to cool off, but most of the time they're going to just pant. She can't eat my fingers either.
Speaker 2:I think she just wants to check the place out.
Speaker 1:She would probably just go sit on one of the rafters up there. We let her go. She can fly Back to her story. So she was attempted to be released and then didn't leave. And the more we've worked with her and the more I've seen her, she appears to be what we call a mal imprint, which means that most likely the reason she was sitting on somebody's porch is that somebody found her when she was still a baby. Baby and oftentimes people, if they find a baby hawk, it's the cutest, most dinosaur little thing ever and oh my gosh, how cool would it be to have my very own hawk.
Speaker 1:And then they realize they get big and they eat a lot and mice are very expensive. We do have education animals and we have to buy mice for them and it's a great plug for hey we take donations. But yes, she was likely mal-imprint, which means that rather than think that she's a red-tailed hawk, she probably thinks that she is a person or that humans are friends, not scary. A normal wild red-tailed hawk would be terrified if we just took it out of the box and had it in hand, but again, she didn't leave.
Speaker 2:She said I got food here.
Speaker 1:She probably won't. She hasn't taken it from me either. It'll take her a bit to calm down. What do you think she's like? I see that that is mouse.
Speaker 2:She's licking her lips.
Speaker 1:I mean, I guess they don't have lips. No, this looks like mouse. Huh Num Nums Girl. The look of confusion.
Speaker 2:The look of offense. I don't even know where I'm at no. Got her beak wet, she's so cool. Now is she one you can pet Not pet, no.
Speaker 1:So sometimes when they work very closely with a person, especially owls will permit some direct touching. But in bird language it's actually a problem I run into very commonly with my parrot owner clients. Birds don't often touch one another. So they may, especially parrots, you know they live in big flocks. They might come and help preen the other bird's face because they can't reach that. But physical touching beyond that is something that's only reserved for a mate.
Speaker 1:So when people have their parrots exactly when they have their parrots and they're like snuggling them up against their chest and giving them big, long pets, they are giving very different messages from what they usually want to suggest right, that's wrong yeah, and they don't know it. I think the the worst one I've had recently was this poor 17 year old boy who I rocked his world when I told him what he was suggesting to his bird.
Speaker 2:I violated my bird he was.
Speaker 1:He was very embarrassed.
Speaker 2:Did my bird violate me?
Speaker 1:But yes, so we don't often touch birds, which they prefer, right?
Speaker 2:You're cute, though I mean I'd hug you up.
Speaker 1:But oh I would. I would snuggle her so much if I knew that.
Speaker 2:She's just cool. Yeah, I want to hear that loud. So tell us the fun fact about her voice.
Speaker 1:So the fun fact is Red Tail Talks are the unofficial official voice actors for Bald Eagles and pretty much any other impressive looking bird you will ever see on a movie or TV show. Red Tail Talks are responsible for that gorgeous, intense, vicious scream, that just loud portrayal of a scream.
Speaker 2:We can't just tickle her and she'll do it, unfortunately. No, wouldn't that be fun.
Speaker 1:We can try playing it and see if she would yell back at it. But the bald eagle, our beautiful national symbol, sounds like an irritated gull, like a seagull, and that doesn't seem American enough. So instead they'll show a picture of a beautiful bald eagle flying across the sky and have a red tail talk conveniently tell you what they want it to sound like.
Speaker 2:You already know what I'm doing.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:All right, let's see.
Speaker 1:So we'll see if we can convince her to talk back at it. She might not, because this isn't her territory, so she has no reason to attempt to defend it, and usually that's a call to say hey, I live here, this is my space.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I feel bad.
Speaker 1:It got her attention.
Speaker 2:I don't want to go crazy though.
Speaker 1:She's looking for it. Who's that Is that? Oh, she can poop on your floor.
Speaker 2:She just dropped a deuce.
Speaker 1:She says nope, this is somebody else's territory.
Speaker 2:I need to leave. I'm going to quit playing, that okay.
Speaker 1:You're all right, they're not going to chase you off.
Speaker 2:We made you poop and fly.
Speaker 1:Well, she says somebody's telling me to get out of their land. I can't help you if you're standing on your own, jess. So these are called jesses. It's a tool that originates from falconry, which is over 10,000 years old, and this leather right here is called an anklet Self-explanatory there but it's basically a lesion collar for a bird of prey. They have very, very strong legs which they use to carry prey that is often heavier than themselves, and we kind of take advantage of that when we have them in captivity to be able to secure them in a safe way to where you know if she does try and take off, it's not going to hurt her to try and go fly somewhere, and we take it very slow, steps at a time to get them accustomed to having wearing this equipment, as it's usually called. But you'll find the smarter birds like to unravel them and pull the Jess out from the anklet, gotcha.
Speaker 2:But yeah, it's basically a leash and collar for a bird so a friend of mine, um, I think when I visited uh aca last time, um, I posted something. I forget what it was, just in my stories it was. It might have been her actually making her noises, because you know, we were trying to get her to make her sound. Um, but he mentioned something. He was trying to get into falconry and I don't know if he I think he's done some things, but I'm not sure. What is that all about?
Speaker 1:So falconry is different from what she's here for. She's very grumpy because she wants her feet and I have to hold her feet still. But falconry again, it originated at least 10,000 years ago and was a way of hunting. People would even hunt with things like golden eagles, which are the largest eagle that we have here. She's like. This is annoying me. I want to take it off now. Those birds are usually taken from the wild as babies or as first-year birds and to dresses and englets and basically trained to hunt for the falconer Um. Oftentimes they use dogs. In conjunction you can have falconry dogs that will essentially flush prey like a rabbit, for example, out of hiding.
Speaker 1:And then they send the bird off after it to go catch it. Um, and you, they've hunted, um pretty much every species I can come up with. If they can catch it, they can hunt it. That doesn't mean they're all going to do a very good job, and there's a lot of species that are not good for falconry. But what we do with them here is essentially take some of those original principles, alter them a bit and apply them to birds that are non-releasable.
Speaker 1:So for her, she was tempted to be released and said I don't understand what it means to be a red-tailed hawk and I will never go find a mate and make more red-tailed hawks. So she was deemed non-releasable and kept in captivity. For that reason we have to temperament test them all and make sure that they're going to be comfortable to stay in captivity, both physically and mentally. So her thinking that she's a person or that people are great mentally check that box real easy, um, and physically she has a bit of a wing droop, um, but is otherwise not compromised. So she makes a great education ambassador, um, and then she can do things like come on podcasts and say, hey, look at how cool red-tailed dogs are um, and oftentimes it's going to be something that's injured.
Speaker 1:We have a short-eared owl which is an endangered species in Indiana that we're working with right now. She's been temperament tested Before we ever consider keeping them, we evaluate them and make sure they're going to be okay with it Because there are some species that are definitely not okay with it and then we use those principles originating in falconry to be able to bring them out and try and spread awareness about the species that we have around us, how to interact with them, how to work with them cooperatively so you know they're not stealing your chickens or you're not shooting them out of the sky and how to really benefit both both sides from that wow, this is beautiful how calm she is so I've
Speaker 2:always had a soft spot for red tails and she has the cage with the tree in the middle of it yeah, that's pretty cool.
Speaker 1:Um, they all have to have their own outdoor enclosure. It's called a muse, like me, like a cat sound, um, that she lives in, so she lives outdoors. Um, she gets the sun, she gets the rain. She can hide from each of them. She's got the big tree that you've seen. She gets a variety of prey items, um, every day, some of which are small, like a small mouse, that she might swallow, and some of which she has to rip apart into tiny pieces so that she can engage in that natural behavior. She can feel my watch vibrating right now. She didn't like that.
Speaker 2:Do her way off.
Speaker 1:It was weird, huh, she made her first podcast today. Good job, you can teach people.
Speaker 2:I appreciate you coming. Is there volunteer opportunity at the ACA? Is there? You know they need donations always, always need donations. What's some things we could plug in at the end.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so mice are expensive. There's no getting around it. Raptors are some of the most expensive animals you can keep in an education program. We have several which you may be seeing different weeks, but we do have volunteer opportunities. Um, if you want to come, we have a lot of in clinic. Uh, it's baby season. We actually have our first three baby squirrels and two baby raccoons. Um, and we are gonna get more. It's just the tip of the iceberg, so there are always volunteers needed in wildlife. Uh, rehabilitation iceberg. So there are always volunteers needed in wildlife. Uh, rehabilitation. Getting to feed tiny baby critters is always cute.
Speaker 1:Um, most of the time is going to be things like cleaning poop out of cages a lot of poop when you work with animals, um, but yes, the clinic itself also can take volunteers to do cleaning and interacting with the animals, um. And then donations are always always very gratefully accepted because, again, beyond the wildlife, we are providing discounted care for the community. But because we're offering a discounted service doesn't mean that it doesn't still cost what it costs.
Speaker 1:So we strive for grants. We get some supportive funding, but a lot of it comes through just the goodness of people's hearts and donating, and when they bring us a wild animal you always ask for a donation. Some people can, some people can't, but we always appreciate whatever people are able to give.
Speaker 2:Right. So animal care alliance 501 C, three yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's what I thought.
Speaker 1:And you're located. What's the address? Uh, 1393. One 1393? 1353. 1353. Abington Pike. It's on the southern part of Richmond, Only not even 10 minutes from here.
Speaker 2:Nice, well, I appreciate you coming in today and, ozzy, I appreciate you coming in today. Yeah, girl, and I'll have to come visit her.
Speaker 1:Definitely We'll have to convince her to eat mice on camera next time she gets to come in. But yeah, thank you for having us.
Speaker 2:It was a pleasure to be here.
Speaker 1:We always love getting animals out and getting to teach more people about what great species we have right here in our backyard.
Speaker 2:Oh, this is great. Alright, that's a wrap.
Speaker 1:Alright.
